Two days ago I shared my thoughts on what I thought about a 44-year-old exotic dancer who asked the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario to intervene on her behalf because she felt that she was a victim of age discrimination after her boss decided that he was going in another direction as far as strippers go. It wasn’t my intention to follow this story up, but after visiting the CBC website when my curiosity was aroused after I discovered an external link from CBC to Crooked in Canada, I thought what the hell-why not.
After reading CBC’s article about the “hard-done-by” stripper I thought I would peruse the 158 comments that were left by others. I was surprised to come across two comments submitted by Ouwroulis herself who under her current circumstances (her human rights complaint being picked up by HRTO) should have abstained from interacting in a public forum such as a news site until her case was concluded.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t begrudge her the opportunity to defend herself when it comes to what others are saying about her in a public forum, but what she has said in her two comments, the content of which can be found below, she should have kept her mouth shut, avoiding the limelight of a public forum until her case was concluded, or at the very least reserved her comments for journalists, radio-show host, and other more legitimate media forms of media, and not in a comment thread trailing a news story about herself.
Dissecting her comments so to speak.
The last comment I read from her:
Darren;, Thanks for your thoughts; you see Human Rights took this case; the 2nd witness will go public soon as well. There are a lot of other ‘facts’ you don’t know about. For example, the 2nd witness was called into an office and fired over a review about her (not me) she was handed the internet review; and told she was fired over it. Oddly 3 weeks before the women had just rec’d. an employment letter fr. the bar saying that she had a secure job etc., and got a bank mortgage….and then fired….(due to age…) these and other facts will come out in the tribunal. So, one day we are great employes & next we are old…..Well, I think we will win our case. Besides; every customer likes something different; every look, think, tall, short petite; black white; younger , mature; so who is to say that anyone can’t make money. We all got hired at other clubs; oddly the other clubs we were hired at were all owned by caucasian owners. Mr. Sit is Asian; and I believe is more predjudiced and youth driven…than other club owners. Too bad for me; and the others. But this is Canada; and we have human rights in this country! If you knew of all the terrible things he’s done to me; and others; you’d be on our side, hopefully you will get to find out more. Have to go to work now.
Kim O.
Despite the fact that the Human Rights has taken up her cause and that legal action is pending against her former employer, she has gone out of her way to make some serious allegations, or as she has stated directly, “If you knew of all the terrible things he’s done to me and others, you’d be on our side.” Now that is a pretty inflammatory statement to make about her former employer. That statement will not bode well for her and I doubt that the HRTO would be too happy about their client, especially if as they should have, coached her one what she can and cannot do while her case is pending. Maybe it’s just me but the preceding comment, in particular her last second last statement, indicates to me that this woman might have a bit of an axe to grind and that her fight isn’t just about age discrimination. She sounds like a disgruntled former employee to me. This fight is also about money. I doubt she is making a $1000.00 per week in her new job. I would also suspect that her career as an exotic dancer is all but over now that her story has gone oh so public.
Kimberlee; O. here; look; it’s better that I dance than be on disability. I don’t look my biological age, and nobody ever knew unless I told them. After surviving an abusive marriage and tragic car crash, etc., I felt it was the best thing I could do for myself, & finances. I know that I’m not every mans ‘cup of tea’! I was in fact quite busy at work; in the last 6 months; didn’t even do ’stage’ anymore; but had I, it would have not turned people off; it would have helped me make more $. I am not flabby, no stretch marks and wrinkles. I agree it was a bad photo in Mississauga news. The facts is there were several productive money making dancers fired that week! All due to age. I’d like to be able to share much more; in time; I will. Starting at age 40 is unusual I agree. I was not burned out to begin with; and love what I do. I am not burned out by drugs and booze as suggested. I am not working under the table while collecting government money as suggested; I am working within the industry still, just not as busy as I was at my ‘old club’ and actually do have plans for some re-training. I do not mind being the ‘joke’ as you all have suggested. The girls who were fired went to those bars daily; for years….they all looked great. The customers who I danced for ranged in every single age group. Oh, and by the way; it’s against the law to tell someone you are too old get out. If any of you met me in real life; you will not think I am my biological age. I certainly don’t claim to be a ‘beauty contestant; not now or ever…but I look and feel good enough to dance naked in public; and I certainly have never been boozed of the stage. I’m very happy that I had the chance to write this. I am not used to posting anything on any website. There are so many things that will come up; that I hope you all get to find out more of the truth via the tribunal. I have no problem with anyone who would like to email me; by using my first name and rogers.
I would send you a pic., a better one; and more details of my case…it’s apparently generated alot of interest.
In the above comment she is clearly on the defensive, and she is going out of her way to explain to those participating in the CBC forum, that she’s an okay kind of gal despite her age. I get the impression she wants people to feel sorry for her. How about you?
Exotic Dancing Dinosaur
Nevertheless she feels she is being discriminated against because of her age (and judging by the picture above she looks her age) in a business where looks, especially youthfulness, means everything to strip club owners. Aside from her obvious breast enhancements, it would appear that she has had a few cosmetic procedures to cover up the fact that she was a 40 something stripper and to gain a competitive edge over other 40-something-year-olds, which in my weird and provocative way of interpreting things leads me to believe that she was fully aware that her age would catch up with her eventually and that her days as a stripper would be numbered because of her age, and that suggests to me that she might have been a little discriminatory herself and toward herself.
Ouwroulis only motivation for screaming age discrimination is money, and how much she can get from it, not to mention the other fringe benefits like a book deal, a few dozen job offers from people empathetic to her cause, and of course the benefits of cheque book journalism. She’s in it for the fame and fortune, it’s that obvious.
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24 responses so far ↓
1 Jaime // Nov 6, 2008 at 2:28 PM
I think that Kim posted in the CBC attempting to clear her name and explain herself, possibly out of naivete doing so might negatively affect her case.
Looking at her sentence structures and word choices, it doesn’t seem to me that she’s used to being highly articulate in public concerning a legal matter. Then again few people are.
Taking at least part of what she’s saying at face value, it would seem to me that there are possibly more factors at play here then the simple fact that she was dismissed because she “looks too old for the job.” She actually said that if that was the only reason, then she would have been upset but would have moved on and found work elsewhere.
The “other factors” must have been somewhat compelling, or else the human rights commission would probably not have taken the case. The “other factors” cannot be published outside of the context of a hearing now, because they could, I’m guessing, libel the club owner, if the allegations became public and were eventually dismissed.
This actually could become an important case. The only other similar scenario that comes to mind are the changes that came about concerning airline stewardesses a number of years ago. It used to be the case that they were obligatorily retired at a certain age, couldn’t be married, couldn’t work if they were pregnant and so on. We see mature airline stewardesses quite commonly now-a-days, because a legal battle or series of legal battles upheld their rights to do so….
CG says
Hey Jaime, thanks for your comment.
I was of the impression that this was merely a case of age discrimination. While I am sure that Kimberlee made other allegations, the age discrimination complaint appears to be the only one that HRTO is pursuing, though as you implied they may have not laid all their cards on the table.
I don’t doubt that she was motivated by other factors to lodge her age discrimination complaint, that there were other reasons for pursuing legal avenues, but I still think (of course I could be wrong) that she is motivated by money more than anything else.
Like I said, I don’t think she’ll win this one, but that doesn’t mean that strip club owners won’t be put on notice by the HRTO when it comes to dismissals based on age.
It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
Regards
CG
2 Jaime // Nov 7, 2008 at 3:20 AM
Hi CG,
Kim has responded to my similar comment on the CBC blog, and I’ve asked her to post a copy of her complaint on Scrib.com
If she complies then we may have a better idea of her choice of action. Filing an HRC complaint is usually a difficult choice for someone, and it’s often more about dignity than money, but it’s too early to tell.
CG says:
Hey Jaime, not to be a smart ass, but given her choice of occupation, dignity? Hmm, that’s a tough one for me to swallow. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying that all exotic dancers are lacking in dignity but for some reason I get the impression that when it comes to Kimberlee her dignity has a lot of dollar signs following it.
I know how difficult the choice can be filing a complaint with Human Rights having done so myself on one occasion and helped another file one as well, though in my complaint I got no where.
As for her posting a copy of her complaint on CBC, I really doubt that will happen, but hey you never know.
Regards,
CG
3 Jaime // Nov 7, 2008 at 2:17 PM
CG wrote: “…I get the impression that when it comes to Kimberlee her dignity has a lot of dollar signs following it. …”
My sense of it is that she’s no more or less chasing a buck or a fair shake then anyone else who found themselves turfed from a workplace that they’d been a part of for a settled period of time.
If it’s not an illegal activity, and she pays her taxes just like everybody else, then I think she’s entitled to the same kick at the can as everyone else without being ridiculed for selling a wanted service, in this case : entertainment.
Do actors sue movie producers because they didn’t pass the audition? No. Are TV stations required to pay for entertainers who they feel are no longer profitable or fit their corporate vision? No. But if someone has been engaged for a substantial length of time; and I believe in Kim’s case it has been years, then there are certain generally recognized protocols of fairness that an employer should practice concerning dismissal. I’m not suggesting that Kim’s former employer did or didn’t do so, I’m just speaking generally to the topic.
CG says:
She is in a business where for employers, appearance is and means everything to their bottom-line. Kimberlee knew that going into the business. Her augmented breast (I am assuming they are) and whatever other cosmetic procedures she might have had is testament to that. She has sculpted herself to fit the industry’s standards and had she not done that she probably wouldn’t have gotten a job as a stripper in the first place. She knew going in her age was a factor and she knew she looked her age. That’s just my opinion of course.
She entered that industry at the age of 40, so she says anyway.
I could be oh so wrong about this, but I also sense vindictiveness apart from the money she is chasing.
The thing that really gets me about this is that she has alleged in the CBC blog that her employer has done other things to her. If that were the case then why just the age discrimination thing? If the OHRT thinks her case has merit, why wasn’t there any mention of that when this story made headlines for the first time?
The employer might have some legal standing when it comes to making a case for himself against Kimberlee, starting with the fact that she made statements about the way she treated her, but offered no evidence, not even the slightest indication of what it is she is alleging. Libel, defamation?
Her argument is moot given that there is a mandatory age for retirement in Canada, though one is not forced to retire at 65.
She seems to be going out of her way to tell her side of the story while avoiding disclosing facts to back up her claim. I was amused that she went out of her way to let others know that “the other stripper’s” story will be told shortly too, again and indication that she is trying awfully hard to convince others that her story has merit, that her story is the right one.
I haven’t heard her former employer make his case yet and I am assuming that’s because he knows that he doesn’t need the public arena via the media to make his case for him or attract unnecessary attention to the case being brought against him. You would think that Kimberlee’s “legal advisors” would have suggested that she do same, but according to her they said she can tell the story to whomever and whenever she feels like it. At least she implied as much in her last response to you. Don’t you find that a little bit odd? I certainly do.
Can you say publicity hound?
Sorry but until I hear her former employer’s side of the story she has no more credibility than he does.
Regards,
CG
4 Pages tagged "exotic" // Nov 9, 2008 at 12:50 AM
[...] bookmarks tagged exotic Exotic Dancing Dinosaur Visits CBC Website: Kimber… saved by 5 others iunfu bookmarked on 11/08/08 | [...]
5 Jaime Antecol // Nov 9, 2008 at 8:49 AM
Kimberlee,
If you could fax a copy of your statement of claim, that is…the original complaint to OHRC, then I will post it online and that will possible eliminate alot of confusion about your case. My fax is 250-386-6246
I also would like to apologize on behalf of others for people’s blind condescension towards you because of your choice of work.
CG says
I will assume Jaime that your apology is in regards to comments made at the CBC blog. Personally I don’t care one way or the other how she chooses to make a living. It’s her life.
That said, Kimberlee should have known that when she decided to enter the public realm with her story she opened herself up to attacks on the Internet.
I can assure you that in this blog there will be no condescending remarks permitted as far as Kimberlee and her choice of occupation goes.
Gotta love the fact that all comments that appear in Crooked in Canada have to get past me first.
Message to Kimberlee: If you’re looking for credibility Kimberlee then it isn’t a bad idea to take Jaime up on her offer. If your case is about more than age discrimination then perhaps you should qualify your claim as such by posting a copy of your statement of claim online. I don’t have a problem posting it here in Crooked in Canada, nor do I have a problem with publishing both sides of the story here either.
That said; if the strip club owner who sacked Kimberlee because of her age is reading Crooked in Canada (and I suspect he is by now) I just want to let you know that I am inviting you to offer up your side of the story in Crooked in Canada, though I won’t hold my breath for that to happen. Just thought I would make the offer anyway.
6 Canadian Gypsy // Nov 9, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Kimberlee
I’m assuming you are referring to this story:
Sorry Kimberlee but Barbara Sanderson story doesn’t change my mind. I don’t doubt for one second that either of you were let because of your age, but I don’t think that in the business you are in that Sit’s actions were discriminatory. Sanderson all but clears Sit of discrimination when she says she was terminated because she received some bad reviews from customers who called her “old and ugly.” What does that criticism of her from paying customers have to do with age discrimination? It sounds to me like those customers were merely pointing out the obvious. I’m sure if Sit put his mind to it he could find many a customer or two or three who thought you were maybe old and ugly too, but that doesn’t mean that he is discriminating against your age does it? I am not buying the age discrimination angle and I don’t think a judge will either. Sorry.
7 Jaime Atecol // Nov 9, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Correction please. The fax number is 250 386 6266
Thank you.
8 Jason // Nov 19, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Hi, I wanted to introduce you to this litte guy “,” his name is comma. He can help you not sound like a jackass.
As for the stripper…LOL! She made the news! I want to have my fifteen minutes of fame. She looks damn good for 44. Call me sometime babe and we’ll do lunch!
9 Billy // Nov 20, 2008 at 12:04 AM
send her to Birmingham Alabama
10 andy // Nov 20, 2008 at 2:40 AM
This stripped doesn’t seem to understand her own profession. The entire point of women stripping for men is because men want to look at their bodies and fantasise about mating with them. It has nothing to do with skill or how good they are at dancing (unless they can dance in a particularly suggestive manner) and to suggest that is does is simply to delude yourself. It should come as no surprise that most men would generally rather mate with a pretty woman aged 20 than a well preserved one aged 40. It’s foolish to take this personally – it’s simply a biological fact. If age were not a factor in this then you could have 90 year old strippers. Stripping, quite clearly, is one of the few professions where age is a crucial factor.
11 Rev. Theresa Lister // Nov 20, 2008 at 3:25 AM
TAKE HIM TO COUNT
GO FOR IT. IT’S A JOB,
MOST PEOPLE CAN’T EVEN DO THIS JOB.
IT TAKE A SPECIL KIND OF WOMAN TO BE A DANCER(EXOTIC). I’M VERY PROUD OF YOU, KIM. YOU GOT MY SURPORT. I WAS A DANCER UNTIL I WAS 40 AND NOW I’M A MINISTER BECAUSE OF IT.
12 pedro // Nov 20, 2008 at 3:44 AM
i would hit it
13 One4allman // Nov 20, 2008 at 4:18 AM
Yo she is one hot MILF! Makes me wanna take a trip to Canada. 44 just means she’s experienced and by the look of that rack she’s got half the 19yo’s beat!
Kimberlee rocks!
14 Mike // Nov 20, 2008 at 4:40 AM
Your forty freaking years old! Face it you’re old and you look like a man. You should be thankful you lasted as a stripper this long. Nobody wants to see some nasty looking old lady dancing around naked.
Hot twenty year old or forty year old grandma? My money goes for the twenty year old.
15 CAJ // Nov 20, 2008 at 5:56 AM
What is wrong with you people.? I would frequent a club if she were to be dancing. I wouldnt mind a table dance at all. Bring it on Honey your hot hot hot
16 Tracey // Nov 20, 2008 at 7:06 AM
I think people need to look past the fact that this girl is a stripper. Would you think differently about her case if she was a waitress. How about, she is a hard working girl who is not on Welfare.
She has just a much right to go the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario as anyone. Good Luck..
17 Fred // Dec 4, 2008 at 4:41 AM
http://www.terb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=207928&highlight=human+rights
she claims nothing bad was ever said about her….wrong! the chick is a nutcase.
CG says
Knowing that I will offend Kimberlee-nutcase is an understatement, and trust me after exchanging more than a few emails with her in the last week or so, I know what I am talking about, though to be fair I think she might be slightly brain-injured as a result of the car accident that killed both her mother and father.
I’ve learned not to take everything Kimberlee says too seriously these days, though what she has said to me in her emails makes for good reading. She tells quite an entertaining, if not unbelievable story about herself, her biker boyfriend (apparently he’s a Hells Angel) and her ex-husbands. I think there is two of them, though her definition of “husband” might include guys she just hung around with on a daily business.
Kimberlee has shared quite a bit with me, most of which will eventually be published here in Crooked in Canada. I’m just waiting for her age-discrimination complaint to be heard and come to a close. By the way, about the age-discrimination complaint, knowing what I now about Kimberlee and what she has told me in emails, I really doubt the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal would have taken her complaint seriously if they knew or learned half as much as I know about her before hand.
She’s a whack job that is for sure, and more than ever when it comes to Kimberlee and her complaint about John Sit, it’s about the money and vindictiveness. I have know doubt about that now.
18 Montreal Escort // Feb 20, 2009 at 6:46 PM
Maybe she should come to Montreal. The monsieurs here just might like her.
19 CG // Feb 21, 2009 at 7:57 AM
You mean the old fellas on viagra right?
20 Rev. Theresa M Lister // Feb 25, 2009 at 10:11 AM
TAKE HIM TO COURT.
21 CG // Feb 25, 2009 at 5:22 PM
Theresa, I think you probably a better stripper than you a Reverend. Am I right or what?
Do you miss stripping Theresa, and by the way, where and when were you ordained, and where do you preach?
22 Confessions of a Canadian Stripper » Blog Archive » My Relationship With Canadian Stripper Begins To Change // Mar 21, 2009 at 9:37 AM
[...] Another Crooked in Canada Article About Kimberlee Ouwroulis This entry was written by CG and posted on March 20, 2009 at 10:37 pm and filed under Confessions of a Canadian Stripper. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post. [...]
23 Confessions of a Canadian Stripper » Blog Archive » Stripper Opens Up About Photo Leaks on the Internet, Fame, Fortune, Did I Really Send You A Photograph, and An Apology? // Mar 24, 2009 at 11:20 AM
[...] her an email asking her not to send me anymore photographs, she left the following comment at Exotic Dancing Dinosaur Visits CBC Website: Kimberlee Ouwroulis Defends Herself. I don’t know what it is about that particular blog article, but whenever Kimberlee had a [...]
24 Releasing Teenage Pyscho Into Community Unsupervised Oh So Wrong // Nov 3, 2009 at 10:23 AM
[...] like if anybody who visits Crooked in Canada knows what is going on in the exotic dancing dinosaur’s life these days, how about a head’s up so I can update her ridiculously stupid story for my loyal, [...]
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